FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

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Ruotsalaine
Posts: 169
Joined: 31 Aug 2014, 18:38

FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

Postby Ruotsalaine » 01 Dec 2020, 18:12

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Yksi kokoillan kestävä Zeus-tapahtuma ruotsalaisten vierailijoiden kanssa. Tehtävässä suomalaisista ja ruotsalaisista koostuva mekanisoitu osasto yrittää suorittaa vastahyökkäyksen venäläisten maahanlaskun jälkimainingeissa. Afista mukaan mahtuu 44 taistelijaa + 4 Zeusta.

Tapahtuman alustava rosteri:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 1081757756

Pelattava tehtävä:
https://armafinland.fi/awats/index.php?page=MO&mid=1424

Tehtäväalue[+] Spoiler
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AIKA/PAIKKA:
LA 09.01.2021 Klo 1900
AFI TS
Event-serveri

Osallistuminen:
1. Ilmoittaudu Awatsiin
2. Valitse sinua kiinnostavat roolit
3. Lataa FINSWE-Repo
4. Testaa repo serverillä
Nummi wrote:Haistoin voittoni tuoksun kaukaa oppiainejärjestöni slack-palvelimelta
Bummeri
Posts: 3009
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 14:35

Re: FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

Postby Bummeri » 10 Jan 2021, 16:04

My plan as blind zeus was based on the following assesment of enemy likely course of action:

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Enemy was most likely to use routes 1/2 and attack along the roads. This could either be a fast mech. rush on route 1 or a slower push on route 2. Route 2 was the most likely considering the risks in option 1.

Option 3 was also possible. They would use infantry to screen the swamp while the vehicles support a bit behind.

Near the objective village the attack would take two edges of the town and then either edge would push into the town while the other would support.

MY ASSETS:

My initial assets:
4x recon squads split into:
2x marksmen teams
4x recon teams

2x atgm teams
2x HMG teams
3x BMD-2

6x squads that I split into:
3x at-teams
3x mg-teams
6x rifleman teams

My first reinforcements:
3x squads
1x Bmd-2 (to replace a bugged out vehicle from the initial forces, maybe?)

Counterattack forces:
9x motorized squads in btr-80
5 or 6x tank destroyers

MY PLAN:

Initially I wanted to have the ATGM and HMG teams set up in defense right at the beginning. There were excellent enfilade firing positions on all avenues of approach. These positions were in good defilade towards the enemy assaulters on their respective flanks. However, I was only allowed to have one atgm moved there so I ditched the whole thing as no mutual support was to be had. I instead setup a thin defence there. Consisting of rifleteams (1), Marksmen teams (2), and some reserve rifleteams (3). The idea was to find enemy attack routes with the riflemen, harass with marksmen and mortar. The idea was to get atleast the marksmen and some of the riflemen away alive to the second line. If the enemy chose to bypass these, they were going to be used as asscrackers. The recon platoon had no AT weapons.
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The second line was a tougher line. I made an L-shaped defence mostly oriented towards the eastern road/forest. On both the roads I made a point where I tried to concentrate multiple AT-systems to a single position. Each killbox was planned to have 1 atgm, 1-AT team in the box, one BMD-2 to watch the road up to the killbox, one at-team in reserve backward of the killbox. The MG and HMG teams were setup so that they could fire in support along all of the sides, in front of the rifle-teams and into the killboxes. All the rifleteams were setup in such a way that enemy infantry had to engage them from the sides or walk right on top of them. Rifleteams were in defilade for attackers coming directly at them and could be supported with enfilading HMG and MG fire. Mortar was planned to be used to delay and cause as much casualties during the phase as we could. Mortar and MG fire were planned to engourage pushing on with vehicles and less with dismounts. This could maybe cause more casualties to vehicles since they weren't screened.

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Above picture shows the killbox at the eastern edge. 1,2,3 were the AT-team, ATGM and BMD-2, that I wanted to concentrate. 4 was the reserve section that was supposed to be used when the enemy started to push through the box. For this flank I added the second BMD-2 as there was a good road to a firing position that would add even more AT capability if needed. Orange numbers 5 and 6 shows the MG and HMG that were used for enfilading fire.

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This above picture shows the western killbox. 1-3 were AT, 4 was reserve AT, 5-6 were enfilading HMG and MG.

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This above picture shows the Infantry screen setup in defilade. And the enfilading MG and HMG firing lines in orange.

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The last phase was to try and delay until the reinforcements came. My idea was to try and retreat some of the forces back around the village and in to the village (1). If we could hold some edge of the town or the forest edge (2), we would be able to dismount the reinforcing platoons in the cover of the forest or the town (3). We could then sweep through in force around or in the town.

Overall I think the plan was a good one and the problems lay in the execution.

ISSUES in EXECUTION:

Delay phase with the recon went ok. We did delay the enemy. We did not manage to retreat most of the forces. This was in part due to issues with controlling some troops initially. Also our smoke usage was not on point. I dont know how effective mortar was at this phase.

The strong line phase went ok. We had trouble with the ATGM since their positioning differed from the plan. They did take out at least one vehicle. The HMG had infinite ammo with scripts, I do not know if Nurmi (missionmaker) held back using them due to that. I wanted to expend all of the ammo. We had trouble with setting up the MG team on the eastern edge, I think the western one could have been used more, its positioning was good.

We expended all the mortar ammo, this was partly due to a bug/mistake. This had the desired effect of putting the dismounts back in, at least somewhat. We were not able to capitalize on this as much as I wanted. Our reserve BMD-2 was supposed to move to firing position when mortar was hitting the enemy but it got stuck and remained so for the game.

When the enemy tried to push the swamp line, we managed a counterattack that killed a single squad. AT team was near, but it did not fire.

We had trouble moving the initial reserves due to issues with waypoints on some zeuses. The later reinforcements should not have been pushed so far by me. Instead they should have been used to secure the route for our final reinforcements. This was the biggest mistake of the plan. This was however a difficult thing to know since I had no idea timewise when any of the reinforcements would show. When the initial reinforcements came, I should have altered the plan and begin to work towards supporting the coming counterattack.

The retreat phase went not so good. We almost totally failed in retreating any meaningful forces during this time. I did manage to bring back two BMD-2. We did not get back enough AT capable inf. And some of it got wasted due to bad movements and bad smoking.

The counterattack phase went bad. The BMD-2's I managed to retreat, the other I routed badly into enemy and the other went to close to enemy in its support of the dismount area. This phase was once again delayed by technical issues with the spawned vehicles. We lost the dismount area just as we were dismounting. After this we had to try and attack through the forest. We were unable to combine infantry and vehicle movements in such a way as to suppress both, enemy vehicles and infantry that had gotten to the edges of the town and forests.

Overall I feel that we need to keep playing more and try and keep finding/fixing technical issues and gameplay issues related to blindzeus usage. We also need to gather more experience and routine in controlling troops in fast paced missions. We have come a long way from the situation where this type of gameplay was a year back.
Last edited by Bummeri on 10 Jan 2021, 16:04, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: 1
"Dataa on saatava." -DataNummi
"Toteutus on pilalla, pelkkää paskaa tilalla." -MyösNummi
Bummeri
Posts: 3009
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 14:35

Re: FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

Postby Bummeri » 10 Jan 2021, 16:23

Concrete directions for improvements:

Missions and mods:
- Try to provide more info on the reinforcements arivals
- Spawn all troops already in formations that fit their usage better. AT-Teams consist of AT-launcher men, MG-teams consist of MG-armed men. No assistants. Rifleteams consist of riflemen and smokes.
- Statics have a set amount of ammo. Individual AI have as much ammo as possible. (AI need differing gear scripts)
- I need to add support for zen and deprecate achilles. Zen has modules for interacting with statics.
- Work towards removing remotecontrol and other modules that use ownership changes of AI units. They cause so much of the issues we see.
- Make sure reinforcements spawn in such a way that they are easily deployable. Or have them be in the mission for the duration, but frozen untill needed. THis would also make mission planning and techincal checking easier.
- Make Num(enter) into a more reliable/3rd person based view that can be used to see what the individual is seeing. Also simple (no locality changing) control for vehicles during this mode.
-Keep refiningn the AI settings. I know Nurmi used his own settings. This should be collaborated on as much as possible and formed into a base for future games.

Zeus gameplay:
- Practice and teach using waypoints and how the waypoint options make or break AI movement. Like "Yellow face, force behavion true, and line, standing"- to attack fast or retreat fast. OR using "red face" to use more while advancing. OR combining "red face and lay down"-waypoint after a move waypoint to setup effective enfilade ambushes quickly.
- Practice and teach simple controls like countermeasures button to smoke.
- Practice and teach simple zeus supression using MG positioning and using Suppress modules.
-Practice and teach attacks

- This type of missions that are somewhat gamemastered, should have a distinct gamemaster slot.
Last edited by Bummeri on 10 Jan 2021, 16:33, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: 1
"Dataa on saatava." -DataNummi
"Toteutus on pilalla, pelkkää paskaa tilalla." -MyösNummi
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JoneKone
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Location: Helsinki

Re: FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

Postby JoneKone » 10 Jan 2021, 17:53

I would add to bummeris good list, that mission maker could/should as far as possible place AI units in the positions they need to be in at mission start (ambushes/statics etc). Preferably in coordination with opfor "leader". This would free up a lot of time for the Zeus team in the beginning of the mission.

Also using dynamic simulation should work pretty good with a narrow mission area, which would cause less need for AI spawning. Dynamic simulation or wait waypoints that can be deleted should also enable for mission maker to preplan and test e.g counter attacks etc. and Zeus could just then adjust the attack intstead of creating it from from scratch under time pressure.
"Vihollisen paras ase on oma krh" - Acidizer
faf
Posts: 196
Joined: 17 Mar 2015, 22:10

Re: FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

Postby faf » 15 Jan 2021, 17:19

Mielestäni Bummeri hoidit aivan loistavasti Zeus-toiminnan koordinoinnin ja suunnittelun. Todella hyvä että oli valmiit suunnitelmat Opforin joukkojen sijoittelulle ja toiminnalle. Näin täytyy ehdottomasti tehdäkin Zeus-toiminnan onnistumisen takaamiseksi.

Blindzeus-konsepti luo omat haasteensa. Joukot eivät aina oikein meinaa totella, waypointit bugittaa, todella vaikea ajoittaa irtoaminen oikea-aikaiseksi sun muuta. Itse huomasin aar:stä että muutaman kerran otin joukot väijystä liian ajoissa irti kun luulin että olivat jo olleet kontaktissa mutta eivät olleetkaan. Toisaalta jäivät irtoamisvaiheessa haahuilemaan jonnekin joten kuolivat sitten kuitenkin.

Balanssin saavuttaminen on varsinkin näin Blindzeus-tehtävissä vaikeaa, kun zeuksena ei ole oikein kärryillä kokonaistaistelutilanteesta. Mielestäni balanssi oli kuitenkin onnistunut tässä tehtävässä loistavasti. Opforin joukkoja oli tarpeeksi muttei liikaa.

Myös yhden Zeuksen (Elias) dedikointi tykistön tulenjohtajaksi oli onnistunut ratkaisu ja saimme oikea-aikaista tulta oikeisiin maaleihin kuten bluforin videoista voi nähdä. Bummeri hienosti koordinoi johtovastuita dynaamisesti eri Zeuksille sen mukaan, missä tarvittiin johtovoimaa. Kokonaisuutena mielestäni onnistuimme Zeus-osapuolella viivytystaistelussa todella hyvin.

QRF-osaston saapumisessa kesti valitettavasti liian pitkään ja Blufor ehti kaivautua asemiin. Niinpä osa QRF:stä ajoi suoraan pahki bluforiin ja osa jäi sitten jumittelemaan metsään turkeyshootiksi.

Tässä vaiheessa myös Zeusten komentorakenne vähän hajosi, kun ei ollut enää valmista suunnitelmaa jota noudattaa. Ylipäänsä hyökkääminen AI:lla on todella hankalaa ainakin ilman remote controllia, nythän Zeukset eivät käyttäneet remotea. Mielestäni Zeusten vastuujaottelu kuitenkin kokonaisuutena toimi tässä hyvin, ja sitä kannattaa käyttää tässä tehtävätyypissä myös jatkossa.

Jos admin on Zeus, hän voisi olla "gamemaster" joka katselee päältä mutta jolle ei anneta liikaa Zeus-vastuuta. Sitten erikseen Zeus-kymppi (tässä meillä Bummeri) joka koordinoi kokonaistilannetta ja jakaa johtovastuita.

Sen lisäksi sitten tehtävästä riippuen 2-4 alempaa Zeusta joille Zeus-kymppi dedikoi joukkoja, tehtäviä ja lohkoja johdettaviksi.

Oli kyllä oikein mukavaa ja homman kruunasi kun sai katsella jälkikäteen pelaajien videoita joiden perusteella homma vaikuttaa ainakin Bluforin hyökkäysvaiheessa olleen oikein onnistunutta ja mukavaa. Suuret kiitokset jälleen kerran kaikille!
Bummeri
Posts: 3009
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 14:35

Re: FINSWE VI Zeus Event La 9.1.2021 Klo 1900

Postby Bummeri » 16 Jan 2021, 16:02

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Mietin tuota, että miten hyökkäystä olisi pitänyt jatkaa.

Meillä oli pisteessä (1) tulivoimaiset vaunut pitämässä aluetta. Olisi pitänyt tunkea KK ja Sinkopartiot asemaan tarpeeksi syvälle metsään (2). Ne olisi voinut tukea vaunuja. KK-partiot olisi voinut lamauttaa metsän peitteen läpi.

Seuraavaksi olis voinut tunnustella muutamilla giffepartioilla eteenpäin asemia kuten (3). Sen jälkeen kohentaa vaunujen asemia tunnustelun mukaan. Tämän jälkeen olisi voitu pyrkiä BTR-uhraamalla saamaan vähän pelitilaa paremmille vaunuille.

Samoin tähän olisi pitänyt tehdä sivustasta vasemmalta jotain näyttävää tunnustelua tulella paljon vähäisemmin voimin.
Last edited by Bummeri on 16 Jan 2021, 16:03, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: 1
"Dataa on saatava." -DataNummi
"Toteutus on pilalla, pelkkää paskaa tilalla." -MyösNummi

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