SOB BIG-TVT 27.10.2018 19:45

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Blahh
Posts: 494
Joined: 17 May 2015, 14:12

Re: SOB BIG-TVT 27.10.2018 19:45

Postby Blahh » 29 Oct 2018, 08:43

Mielenkiinnolla odotan SOBin debrieffia tapahtumasta. Koskien niin teknisiä järjestelyjä kuin sitten tehtävän sisältöä.

Lyhyesti oma mielipide: Hyvä että käytiin kokeilemassa, mutta samaan myllyyn en yhteisönä lähtisi, ellei tapahdu isoja muutoksia.

- Viikkopelipäivä: Nyt kun pelaajamäärät n. 80ssa niin sen verta pitäisi olla paikkojakin. Toki oli noshowta joten raakaa faktaa ei ole, että jäikö monella pelit väliin.

- Tehtävä: Mielikuvitukseton, balanssoimaton ja ylipäätänsä huonosti mitoitettu. Tämä ynnättynä aloitus ajankohtaan niin kesto oli tasoa viikkopelitehtävä, paitsi että huonompi. He olivat täysin laskeneet, että tässä menee koko ilta, ei varasuunnitelmaa.

- Serveri: Ei selvästikkään optimoitu tämän tason eventteihin, vaikka hommasta on heillä "Vuosien kokemus". Meidän servu ei desynccaa 130 pelaajalla.


+ Meidän johdolla hyvä koppi asioista. Repo, TFAR yms säätö saatiin hoidettua nätisti.

+ Meidän suunnitelmat ja vissiin toteutus. Tosin vastuskaan ei ollut ihmeellinen.

+ Suolaus
Bummeri
Posts: 2812
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 14:35

Re: SOB BIG-TVT 27.10.2018 19:45

Postby Bummeri » 29 Oct 2018, 17:16

Blahh wrote:- Viikkopelipäivä: Nyt kun pelaajamäärät n. 80ssa niin sen verta pitäisi olla paikkojakin. Toki oli noshowta joten raakaa faktaa ei ole, että jäikö monella pelit väliin.


Tähän pikaisesti:

Arvioidessani osallistujamäärää, katselin vähän viikkopeleihin ilmoittautuneuden määrää. Sen mukaan arvioin alkuperäisen osallistumisen ja arvioin myös sen myöhemmän täydennystarpeen. Nyt sitten viikkopeleissä on ollut ilmoittautumisten lisäksi extraa jonkunverran. Lisäksi molemmat määrät on ollut kasvussa tässä tapahtuman järjestämisen aikana. Nämä aiheutti heittoa siihen arvioon. Tarkoitus tosiaan oli pyrkiä mahduttamaan kaikki. Tilanne oli hyvällä tasalla vielä torstai perjantai akselille, jolloin tuli vielä n. 10 ilmoa lisää.

Kuusi pelaajaa oli reservissä, joita en saanut tapahtumaan mukaan mahtumaan. Kaikki muut halukkat mahtuivat. Noshowta oli yleisesti tämäntyyppisiin tapahtumiin pätevän kaavan mukaan noin 10%. Siis noin 7 - 8 pelaajaa.

Jos olisi menty sillä määrällä mikä oli ennen torstaita, eli noin 72 pelaajaa, niin käytännössä olisi mahduttu tuo noshow huomioiden.
Last edited by Bummeri on 29 Oct 2018, 17:29, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: 1
"Dataa on saatava." -DataNummi
"Toteutus on pilalla, pelkkää paskaa tilalla." -MyösNummi
Bummeri
Posts: 2812
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 14:35

Re: SOB BIG-TVT 27.10.2018 19:45

Postby Bummeri » 03 Nov 2018, 10:06

Kirjaan nää asita äkkiä tännekin, niin helpompi mahdollisesti löytää:

Some general feedback and possible vectors for developing the SOB big-tvt event

Mods and the setup

The repo was very well done. You had a very limited repo fit for the mission. You used easily available common versions of mods. They were not changed etc. before the event.
It was nice to have a test mission where to test things. It would be great if it would fully match 1:1 the actual mission to be played. Things that I noticed were missing from it:
- Vehicle weapon ammo loadouts changed from test to actual
- Start positions were not the same
- Buildings/ammo boxes were not present in their correct location or loadouts.
- Boundaries/rules for the mission

One thing I do not like to be doing is making the following work on behalf of the event organizer:
https://armafinland.fi/forum/viewtopic. ... =30#p39015
https://armafinland.fi/forum/viewtopic. ... =30#p39016
https://armafinland.fi/forum/viewtopic. ... =30#p39017

I had to specifically ask and write up and depict the Mission rules, area and game-mechanic descriptions.
I wrote the last part specifically in English because I wanted to show you guys different aspects.
This is something that should be done by the event organizer.

The way the mod testing was handled was excellent. The servers were up when they were promised to be up.
Special thanks to you from our mod guy!

Communication

I think communication related to event management went well. I could reliably reach people and had multiple contact points if needed. The only strained communications hapenned at the start of the missions. This was due to other tasks for you guys(Company leader/gamemaster).
I would try and develop more centralized way of communication. We did a lot in PM's so others might have been left wondering about different things.
Also some documents were written in "immersive" manner. This atleast for me lead to confusion regarding the actual start timings etc. I think it would be great if splat text was kept strictly separate from the actual organizational info . I refer specifically to this document: https://drive.google.com/file/d/17eIoFy ... VjQPe/view

One thing baffled me. Why on earth cant the server password for the actual event be given out earlier? I have a million other things to do before event starts and I do not want to be updating and sharing password around at that point. If it needs to be kept hidden until event time, then tell me so and I will only auto update them at xx:xx time or some such.

All of the above issues were mitigated by good communication!

Mission

This section is going to be annoyingly negative. I am sorry about that. Don't take it as if I am not appreciating the amount of work that has gone into it.

In the safe-time before the mission is actually a go, it would be great to be able to set markers on the side channel.
This helps leaders coordinate efforts during the mission and visualize any plans better.

RUS Plan - This was a disaster. In a single life-all evening event, you have to consider your subordinates play experience when planning. You cant just go and tell everyone to rush. Best case scenario both teams suffer immediate casualties. Worst case, the other team is just going to die without doing anything. The event kind of bombed due to this. Mission planners have to consider if we are here to play roulette where 90% of players are just collateral, or play something tactical and engaging. Luck based tactics are bad tactics.

I am sure that whoever decided on the plan has already gone through and learned from what happened. But in case of things like this in the future, I think the organizers should always prep and notify people of a Backup-mission possibility. This way we can always have another go if the first is a bust. The missions can be even that we play the initial mission again, with quickly revised plans.

Some other factors in the mission that did not really come to play due to above issue:

The mission area was huge for less than company sized formations. It leads to diluting the forces and creates a series of smaller fights. The scale gets lost.

IFV's dominate in that kind of terrain. VD was around 4km without the fog. INF AT weapons were effective to 600 meters max. If Inf is expected to fight against IFV in this sort of terrain, then they need organic ATGM sections, to support their own platoon operations.
IFV were not comparable. The Bradley had better TOW missiles available. Bradleys commander position is far supperior to BMP3 commander position, and leads to better target acquisition capability.

The way rearm was set up was a bit dangerous. You could take any ammo for the vehicles and as much as you liked. This meant that the initial loadout that was set for the vehicles meant nothing. The better TOW missiles were loaded in asap. They were the top attack missiles and the thermobaric missiles. Both can be seen used in these videos: https://armafinland.fi/forum/viewtopic. ... =60#p39130
In the future you should use the specific magazines option: https://ace3mod.com/wiki/feature/rearm. ... -magazines
This way you can limit the total ammo available and types, easily.
I guarantee you, if the mission had gone on longer any remaining RUS INF would have felt the unlimited rearm-able ammo on their skin.

Repair also had its flaws. You did not need the repair truck close to fix the vehicle hit-points. All you needed was the crew kit and the toolkit. This means, that post TANKS-DLC, vehicles are never gone for long. Our vehicle crews fixed any hit-point damage almost the second they received any. On the RUS side this was of no use, since their BMPS were taken out by TOP attack TOWS. This means that they 90% time they are total losses.

Server performance

I think this was an area with issues so I appreciate your effort in making sure the numbers did not bloat beyond what you had set as max. This said:

I think your server can realistically handle max 110 players in it current configuration. Even this is questionable. So it may be even as low as 100. At the mission start we had 137 players. This was too much and great amoun of lag was created untill people died off and disconnected.

I wrote in #server-perf-settings channel how you could maybe try and boost performance. IF you need further help, then just ask.

Eyes on the future

I am looking forward to the next one. Especially since I think the next one wont be featuring a rush of such magnitude.
If you are willing to have us we would gladly join you. I see great potential there and appreciate the effort you guys have shown.
I hope to hear from you guys when you have the next event coming.
"Dataa on saatava." -DataNummi
"Toteutus on pilalla, pelkkää paskaa tilalla." -MyösNummi
Bummeri
Posts: 2812
Joined: 09 Nov 2013, 14:35

Re: SOB BIG-TVT 27.10.2018 19:45

Postby Bummeri » 22 Nov 2018, 18:56

SOB-Dead wrote:We did, unfortunately since I had severe technical problems with my rig in the last couple of weeks (had to re-do / re-build my entire pc) the compiled and written report got lost... :cry:
However I can definitely provide you with the "cliff notes" for what occured, as we extensively debreifed the available german participants.

- Event start: Both sides raced towards Athira. II. Pl "X-Ray" on the Russian side decided to push the entiretyof their forces directly into Athira, without prior establishing overwatch, or general support. On top of this dodgy "strategy" (for which the Pl leader was taken to task and ultimately excused himself for his apparent lapse of judgement on the strategical matter), Russian Recon for the II.Pl pushed into the city and barely MISSED spotting the already roaming American forces (literally two groups pass each other seperated by 100m of open road in between both of them), leading to the further commitment of the Russian Inf forces into the city.

Unfortunately the Pl lead ALSO decided to push into the city right after the recon squad pushed into the city, leading to him and his team being ambushed on the road (seen in your first video - GAZ on the street) - he was quickly killed and communication broke down.

- Papa/Juliet from the I. Pl tasked with supporting the II. Pl pushed into Athira and moved into position right next to the factory compound, being swiftly identified, engaged and destroyed, but also falsely reported as being a BMP-3 instead of being a BTR.
- Remaining Inf forces inside Athira are systematically surrounded and wiped out via usage of severe grenade and AT capabilities

- One lone BMP-3 (Bravo/Yankee) is spotted and engaged along the central ridge of the ZA, resulting in the BMP being destroyed, yet most of the forces inside the BMP are able to quickly evacuate and withdraw from the vehicle. Somehow they decide to retreat and fortify their position alongside the coast of Alikampos, never to be seen or heard from again.
- The other remaining BMP-3 (alpha/Zulu) meanwhile pushed into our left flank via the coastline, with us falsely thinking that both enemy vehicles are indeed destroyed. They manage to find a suitable fighting position to engage our supply lines, only to be thereafter spotted, engaged and destroyed.

- The remaining recon force from the I. Pl pushed alongside Alpha/Zulu, "parking" their GAZ by submerging it inside the coastal ebb and effectively infiltrate our back lines, hunting for US Coy Cmd (me) they manage to move unto my position unseen (300m distance). Luckily for me, this was the time I decided to move on up and I mounted my HMMV, moving into Athira myself.
- Rus Coy Cmd is spotted by our recon guys, sporting his trendy blue beret and his antena on Hill 73, and is swiftly engaged and pushed back
- Hill 78 is held by a small force comprised of the rmaining Pl leaders from I. Pl
Both of them engage encroaching US forces, managing to wound 1 attacker, they are swiftly pushed back. One Russian abandoning the other one, trying to hastily escape via GAZ along the road, the GAZ is engaged and destroyed by the attacking Bradley, the remaining Russian is also swiftly disposed
- No eny forces effectively swam or tried to swim along the coastline, no AI was spwaned or present
- Afterwards there is just the mop up duty
Ultimately we had extensive talks with the guys who were present, showed them their faults and potential downfalls only in order for us to motivate them to work together in the upcoming year
We aim to facilitate further interoperationability between German Forces themselves and obviously between German Forces and international forces.

I think most of the guys have seen the error of their ways and are actively working to "come back" and bring the fight to you, next year.
Right now we are tirelessly working to improvve upon our technical side of things and the other aspects you mentioned in your very forthcoming feedback! :smiley:
Also we adopted a new AAR tool, which is currently in testing!
Therefore next time I won't have to use "wall of text" anymore... I at least hope! :wink:
"Dataa on saatava." -DataNummi
"Toteutus on pilalla, pelkkää paskaa tilalla." -MyösNummi

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